DATE=OCTOBER 21, 1995 TYPE=ON THE LINE NUMBER=1-00367 TITLE=THE POPE, AMERICA AND THE WORLD EDITOR=OFFICE OF POLICY - 619-0037 CONTENT= THEME: UP, HOLD UNDER AND FADE ANNCR: ON THE LINE -- A DISCUSSION OF UNITED STATES POLICIES AND CONTEMPORARY ISSUES. THIS WEEK, "THE POPE, AMERICA AND THE WORLD." HERE IS YOUR HOST, ROBERT REILLY. HOST: HELLO AND WELCOME TO ON THE LINE. FEW MEN HAVE HAD AS GREAT AN IMPACT ON THE CONTEMPORARY WORLD AS POPE JOHN PAUL THE SECOND. EARLIER THIS MONTH, THE POPE VISITED THE UNITED STATES AND ADDRESSED THE UNITED NATIONS ON ITS FIFTIETH ANNIVERSARY. IN WELCOMING HIM, PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON SAID, "ON THE THRESHOLD OF A NEW MILLENNIUM, MORE THAN EVER, WE NEED YOUR MESSAGE OF FAITH AND FAMILY, COMMUNITY AND PEACE." JOINING ME TODAY TO DISCUSS THE MESSAGE OF POPE JOHN PAUL THE SECOND AND ITS RELEVANCE TO AMERICA AND THE WORLD ARE TWO EXPERTS. GEORGE WEIGEL IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE ETHICS AND PUBLIC POLICY CENTER HERE IN WASHINGTON AND THE AUTHOR OF "THE FINAL REVOLUTION: THE RESISTANCE CHURCH AND THE COLLAPSE OF COMMUNISM." AND MONA CHAREN IS A NATIONALLY SYNDICATED COLUMNIST WHO OFTEN WRITES ON SOCIAL AND MORAL ISSUES. HOST: WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM. GEORGE WEIGEL, WHAT IS THE POPE'S MESSAGE TO AMERICA? WEIGEL: I THINK THE POPE'S MESSAGE TO AMERICA AND TO THE WORLD IS THAT DEMOCRACY IS NOT A MACHINE THAT WILL RUN OF ITSELF. THE INSTITUTIONS OF DEMOCRACY, THE PROCEDURES OF DEMOCRACY, HAVE TO BE GROUNDED ON, WHAT HE CALLED AT THE UNITED NATIONS "A CULTURE OF FREEDOM." A CERTAIN SET OF MORAL HABITS OF MIND, HABITS OF HEART -- VIRTUES, WE WOULD SAY IN AN OLDER VOCABULARY -- THAT TURN HUMAN BEINGS INTO THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO CAN MAKE A DEMOCRACY WORK. SO THE HOLY FATHER'S MESSAGE TO BOTH THE U-N AND THE U.S. SEEMS TO ME TO FIT VERY NICELY WITHIN AN ONGOING AMERICAN DEBATE ABOUT THE CHARACTER OF OUR PEOPLE AND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE NATIONAL CHARACTER AND THE NATIONAL PROSPECT IN THE FUTURE. HOST: MONA CHAREN, LET ME ASK YOU HOW IS IT THAT THE POPE, WHO AFTER ALL, IS THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, APPEARS TO HAVE BECOME A MORAL AUTHORITY FAR TRANSCENDING HIS OWN CONSTITUENCY. CHAREN: WELL, IT'S INTERESTING. THAT MESSAGE THAT GEORGE JUST OUTLINED WAS ARTICULATED TWO-HUNDRED YEARS AGO BY JAMES MADISON, WHO REFERRED TO THE CONSTITUTION, WHICH HE HELPED TO DRAFT, THAT THIS CONSTITUTION WAS INTENDED FOR A RELIGIOUS AND VIRTUOUS PEOPLE [AND] IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO GOVERNANCE OF ANY OTHER. THE POPE IS EMPHASIZING THAT SELF-GOVERNMENT DEPENDS ON SELF-DISCIPLINE AND AN INTERNALIZED SENSE OF ORDER AND VIRTUE, WITHOUT WHICH IT CAN BECOME MERE LICENSE. WHY IS THE POPE NOW BEING GREETED SO APPRECIATIVELY? THAT'S A REALLY INTERESTING POINT. IN THE PAST, PAPAL VISITS TO AMERICA HAVE BEEN TREATED, AT LEAST BY THE ELITE PRESS, AS OCCASIONS FOR DISCUSSING THE DISSENSION WITHIN THE AMERICAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. THIS WAS ALWAYS THE FOCUS, THAT THE POPE WAS A CONSERVATIVE IN MATTERS OF FAITH AND DOCTRINE AND THAT THE AMERICAN CATHOLIC LAITY MAY HAVE DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT BIRTH CONTROL AND ABORTION, ETC. SUCH QUESTIONS AS THE ORDINATION OF WOMEN. THIS TIME THERE WAS REMARKABLY LITTLE OF THAT. THERE WAS AN ENORMOUS FOCUS ON THE STRENGTH OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH, ON THE RAPTUROUS RECEPTION THE POPE GOT, ALWAYS DID GET IN FACT, FROM THE FAITHFUL. AND I THINK IT'S BECAUSE THERE IS A DAWNING RECOGNITION IN THIS COUNTRY THAT WE ARE LITTLE BIT MORALLY ADRIFT. THERE IS AN ENORMOUS APPEAL TO A FIGURE SUCH AS THE POPE WHO HAS BEEN CONSISTENT AND STUCK WITH HIS TRADITIONAL MORAL VIEWS IN FAIR WEATHER AND FOUL. HOST: HE DID REMONSTRATE WITH US. HE REFERRED TO THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE IN THIS VAST HISTORICAL DRAMA WHICH THE WHOLE WORLD WATCHES AS IT UNFOLDS BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES IS AN EXAMPLE. HE SAID "YOU ARE IN DANGER OF LOSING THIS EXPERIENCE." WEIGEL: IT'S VERY INTERESTING THAT THIS POPE, WHO, PRIOR TO HIS ELECTION IN 1978, HAD A RATHER MINIMAL PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF THE UNITED STATES, HAS CLEARLY LEARNED AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OUR COUNTRY AND HAS DEVELOPED A DEEP, AND I BELIEVE, ABIDING AFFECTION FOR AMERICA AND AMERICANS. IN BALTIMORE HE REMINDED US OF THE QUESTION THAT ABRAHAM LINCOLN POSED IN THE GETTYSBURG ADDRESS: HOW CAN A COUNTRY CONCEIVED IN LIBERTY AND DEDICATED TO THE PROPOSITION THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL LONG ENDURE? HE SAID TO US, THAT WAS NOT A QUESTION SIMPLY FOR THE GENERATION OF THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR, THAT'S A QUESTION FOR EVERY GENERATION OF AMERICANS. AMERICA IS BY DEFINITION IN THE NATURE OF AN EXPERIMENT. THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT THIS GOING TO WORK FOREVER. AND AS MONA WAS SAYING, UNLESS YOU HAVE A SELF-GOVERNING PEOPLE WHO ARE GOVERNED FROM WITHIN BY A CERTAIN MORAL COMPASS, A CERTAIN SET OF SHARED MORAL NORMS, YOU CAN'T HAVE A SELF-GOVERNING DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC. ONE OF THE TRULY ASTONISHING PHENOMENA AT THE END OF THE 20TH CENTURY IS THAT THE BISHOP OF ROME, THE HEAD OF A CHURCH WHICH WAS LONG REGARDED AS PERHAPS EVEN AN ENEMY OF THE DEMOCRATIC PROJECT IN HISTORY, NOW HAS THE THICKEST, RICHEST, MOST COMPELLING MORAL ACCOUNT OF THE DEMOCRATIC PROJECT ON OFFER IN THE WORLD TODAY. HOST: DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT, MONA CHAREN? CHAREN: I CERTAINLY DON'T DISAGREE. IT'S INTERESTING THERE'S ANOTHER ASPECT TO THIS THAT DANIEL PATRICK MONYIHAN POINTED OUT, AS A SENSE OF HOW AMERICAN POLITICS AND CULTURE HAVE EVOLVED OVER THE LAST SIXTY OR SEVENTY YEARS. HE POINTED OUT THAT WHEN THE DELEGATION OF DIGNITARIES MET THE POPE UPON HIS ARRIVAL AT NEW YORK AIRPORT, HE WAS GREETED BY THE TWO SITTING SENATORS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK, THE MAYOR OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK, THE GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK AND SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE, PRESIDENT OF THE CITY COUNCIL I BELIEVE, ALL OF WHOM ARE AMERICAN CATHOLICS. AND THAT THIS ATTRACTED ALMOST NO NOTICE. AND THIS IS GREAT. WOULD THAT WERE THE CASE WITH RACE RELATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY, THAT WE COULD BE BEYOND NOTICING WHAT RACE PEOPLE ARE. HOST: LET'S SPEAK A LITTLE ABOUT HIS PERSPECTIVE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS. HE SPOKE OF THE CAPTIVE NATIONS. HE SPOKE OF THE "VELVET REVOLUTION" IN 1989 AND HE TOOK IT AS AN EXAMPLE OF A UNIVERSAL YEARNING FOR FREEDOM. HE TALKED NOT ONLY ABOUT THE COUNTRIES OF CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPE, BUT OF THE BALTIC STATES, ARMENIA, AZERBAIJAN, AND SO FORTH. AND HE SAID THE LONG DELAYED PROMISE OF PEACE AT THE END OF WORLD WAR TWO, WHICH HAS BEEN FRUSTRATED FOR THE PAST FIFTY YEARS, IS NOW POSSIBLE BECAUSE THESE COUNTRIES ARE FREE. WEIGEL: SIXTEEN YEARS AGO, WHEN THE POPE FIRST ADDRESSED THE U-N, THE ENTIRE SUBSTANCE OF HIS ADDRESS WAS HIS DEFENSE OF HUMAN RIGHTS, OF BASIC HUMAN FREEDOM, PARTICULARLY OF THE RIGHT OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM AS THE FIRST OF HUMAN RIGHTS. SIXTEEN YEARS LATER, HAVING BEEN THROUGH THIS EXTRAORDINARY EXPERIENCE IN 1989 OF THE COLLAPSE OF COMMUNISM IN EASTERN EUROPE, I THINK HE SEES THAT ANALYSIS, THAT MORALLY DRIVEN ANALYSIS VINDICATED BY EVENTS. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE'S A NAIVE OPTIMIST, THE FUTURE OF NEW DEMOCRACIES WHETHER THEY ARE IN CENTRAL EUROPE . . . HOST: HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN SOME OF THOSE EVENTS, WAS HE NOT? AS A HISTORICAL NOTE, HOW WOULD YOU EVALUATE THE ROLE OF THE POPE IN THE COLLAPSE OF COMMUNISM IN EASTERN EUROPE AND THE SOVIET UNION? CHAREN; EXTREMELY SIGNIFICANT. THE ROLE OF CHURCHES IN EASTERN EUROPE AS FOCAL POINTS OF PROTEST AGAINST COMMUNIST REGIMES CANNOT BE OVERSTATED AND THE POPE'S LEADERSHIP PERSONALLY WAS CRITICAL. JUST AS RONALD REAGAN WAS WILLING TO SPEAK HONESTLY ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE SOVIET UNION, AND THOSE BEHIND THE IRON CURTAIN FOUND THAT ENORMOUSLY LIBERATING, SIMILARLY THE POPE'S WILLINGNESS TO SPEAK CLEARLY ABOUT THE GOOD AND EVIL OF THE COMMUNIST REGIMES WAS EXTREMELY HELPFUL. WEIGEL: THE POPE HAS LONG HAD THE VIEW THAT YOU CAN'T READ HISTORY THROUGH THE PRISMS OF POLITICS OR ECONOMICS ALONE. IN FACT HE BELIEVES AND ARGUED AT UNESCO IN 1980 THAT CULTURE IS MORE POWERFUL THAN POLITICS OR ECONOMICS. AND IT'S INTERESTING THAT AT THE U-N THIS YEAR HE REMINDED THE AUDIENCE THAT IN THE CASE OF HIS NATIVE LAND, POLAND, IT WAS CULTURE -- LANGUAGE, RELIGION, LITERATURE, AND SO ON -- THAT KEPT POLAND THE NATION TOGETHER DURING A PERIOD OF OVER ONE HUNDRED YEARS WHEN POLAND THE STATE HAD BEEN DIVIDED UP AMONG PRUSSIA, AUSTRIA, AND RUSSIA. SO HE HAS THIS VERY DISTINCTIVE ANGLE OF VISION ON HISTORY. IT'S NOT DRIVEN SIMPLY BY WHO IS IN CHARGE NOW, OR WHO IS MAKING OR SELLING THINGS NOW, BUT WHO IS BELIEVING -- THAT SEEMS TO HIM TO BE THE ENGINE OF HISTORY. CHAREN: FROM AN AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE HE DOES SEEM TO HAVE A TERRIFIC SENSE OF TIMING. HE CAME ALONG AT A TIME WHEN WE WERE ENGAGED IN THE STRUGGLE TO DEFEAT THE COMMUNIST EMPIRE AND PROVIDED THAT TERRIFIC MORAL BOOST AND HAVING ACCOMPLISHED THAT, WE ARE NOW TURNED INWARD AND DEALING WITH OUR OWN SENSE OF MORAL DECAY AND FAMILIES AND SO ON. THE POPE, THOUGH HE IS GETTING ON IN AGE AND YOU MIGHT THINK THAT HE MIGHT GET A LITTLE BIT DISTRACTED, HE CAME OVER AND DELIVERED EXACTLY THE MESSAGE THAT AMERICANS ARE READY AND NEEDED TO HEAR ABOUT THE NECESSITY FOR A MORAL RENEWAL WITHIN THE FAMILY AND THAT EACH FAMILY IS A CHURCH, AND THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE. I ACTUALLY AM QUITE OPTIMISTIC AT THE MOMENT ON THE SUBJECT OF ABORTION WHICH I HAVE NOT EVER BEEN BEFORE IN MY LIFE. THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF SIGNS IN THE UNITED STATES THAT EVEN DYED-IN-THE-WOOL PRO-CHOICE PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO RETHINK THE MORALITY OF THEIR TRADITIONAL POSITION, AND I THINK THAT'S CAUSE FOR HOPE. HOST: LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION. GEORGE WEIGEL, YOU SAID THAT THE POPE IS NOT A NAIVE OPTIMIST, INDEED, RATHER THAN THAT, HE SAID THIS CENTURY BEGAN, OR MODERNITY BEGAN, WITH A TREMENDOUS SENSE OF SELF-ASSERTION AND OPTIMISM, YET HERE WE ARE FACING THE DAWN OF A NEW CENTURY WITH A FEAR AND A SENSE OF REAL DREAD. WHY IS THAT? WEIGEL: I THINK THAT THE HOLY FATHER HAS LONG HAD A VIEW OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY AS A REAL FIELD OF TEARS. IT'S BEEN AN INCREDIBLY BAD CENTURY IN MANY RESPECTS, ENORMOUS SLAUGHTER, ENORMOUS DESTRUCTION, ENORMOUS DEGRADATION OF HUMAN LIFE AND YET HE COMES THROUGH THAT EXPERIENCE ON ITS FAR SIDE AS A MAN OF HOPE -- NOT OF OPTIMISM, OPTIMISM IS A VERY FRAGILE BUSINESS -- BUT HOPE ROOTED IN FAITH THAT THE HUMAN PERSON AND HUMAN COMMUNITIES, UNDER GRACE, CAN DRIVE HISTORY IN A MORE POSITIVE DIRECTION. AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT [U-N] GENERAL ASSEMBLY AUDIENCE THAT HE WAS ADDRESSING, THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO RETAIN THAT DEEP KIND OF HUMANISM AT THE END OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY. AND HERE'S ANOTHER REMARKABLE THING, THAT RELIGION THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE WITHERED AWAY BY THE END OF THIS CENTURY IS NOW THE BEARER OF THE HUMANISTIC TRADITION IN WORLD CULTURE AND POLITICS. CHAREN: IF I COULD JUST MAKE A SOMEWHAT PAROCHIAL AMERICAN POLITICAL POINT, I THINK THAT PART OF THE REASON THAT THE POPE WAS SO WELL RECEIVED THIS TIME IN THE UNITED STATES IS THAT THERE IS A LONGING FOR MORAL LEADERSHIP RIGHT NOW IN THIS COUNTRY. IF YOU LOOK AT THE EXIT POLLS FROM THE 1994 OFF-YEAR ELECTION, YOU FOUND THAT LARGE MAJORITIES OF THOSE WHO VOTED SAID THAT THEY WOULD BE MORE INCLINED TO VOTE FOR A CANDIDATE THAT ADDRESSED MORAL ISSUES THAN ANY OTHER. I THINK THERE IS A SENSE THAT THE EXISTING LEADERS, THE PRESIDENT AND THOSE WHO ARE SEEKING THE PRESIDENCY, ARE NOT FULFILLING THAT ROLE. AND SO HERE CAME SOMEONE, OBVIOUSLY NOT A CANDIDATE FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION, BUT SOMEBODY WITH TRUE MORAL AUTHORITY AND HE WAS CLASPED TO THE BOSOM OF AMERICA. HOST: IN THE POPE'S CRITIQUE OF MODERN IDEOLOGY THAT HAS CAUSED THE HAVOC YOU, GEORGE WEIGEL, HAVE REFERRED TO, WHETHER IT BE NAZISM OR COMMUNISM, HE SAID THE WORST HAPPENS WHEN YOU LOSE YOUR ABILITY TO RECOGNIZE ANOTHER PERSON AS A HUMAN BEING. HE SAID THAT THERE ARE NEW VIRULENT FORMS OF IDEOLOGY IN A KIND OF RABID NATIONALISM THAT ARE ENDANGERING THE PROSPECT FOR THIS NEW MORAL ORDER AND HOPE. CHAREN: THE RETURN OF FASCISM IN EUROPE IS VERY CLEARLY PART OF WHAT THE POPE HAD IN MIND. HOST: THE COUNTRIES HE SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED WERE BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA AND IN CENTRAL AFRICA. CHAREN: RIGHT. SOMEONE SAID THAT THE RISE OF NATIONALISM IN THE LATE NINETEENTH AND EARLY TWENTIETH CENTURIES WAS A RESPONSE TO THE DECLINE OF RELIGIOUS FAITH. PEOPLE BEGAN TO PUT THEIR FAITH IN THE STATE AND IN THE NATION-STATE SPECIFICALLY, MEANING THE IDEA OF AN ELITE PEOPLE, GENETICALLY OR IN SOME OTHER WAY. WE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THAT PERNICIOUS IDEA HAD BEEN STAMPED OUT AT THE END OF WORLD WAR TWO. IT CLEARLY HAS NOT BEEN AND IT HAS BEEN MAKING QUITE A COMEBACK IN EUROPE, IN BOSNIA. THE OTHER PLACE THAT THAT TENDENCY TO FAIL TO SEE THE HUMANITY OF ANOTHER IS VERY EVIDENT IS IN THE UNITED STATES IN THE ABORTION LAWS. THE ABSOLUTE UNWILLINGNESS TO LOOK AT THE HUMANITY OF THE UNBORN. WEIGEL: I THINK THE HOLY FATHER IS DEEPLY IMPRESSED BY A GREAT IRONY. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 1990S, HERE WE SEEM TO HAVE ENORMOUS VINDICATION OF THE UNIVERSALITY OF HUMAN RIGHTS IN THE COLLAPSE OF COMMUNISM, IN THE DEMOCRATIC REVOLUTION IN LATIN AMERICAN AND PARTS OF EAST ASIA, AND YET AT EXACTLY THE MOMENT WHEN THIS SEEMS TO BE MOVING AHEAD YOU HAVE ALL SORTS OF PLAYERS IN WORLD POLITICS DENYING THE UNIVERSALITY OF HUMAN RIGHTS. HOST: ON THE BASIS OF WHAT? WEIGEL: THAT THIS IS WESTERN CULTURAL IMPERIALISM. THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL HUMAN NATURE. THIS IS ALL A CULTURALLY CONSTRUCTED ARTIFACT IMPOSED ON OTHERS. WHAT THE POPE SAID AT THE U-N, I THINK, IS ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL. IF THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL HUMAN NATURE, THEN THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE WORLD CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH ITSELF ABOUT ITS FUTURE. AND THE ALTERNATIVE TO AN UNDERSTANDING OF UNIVERSALITY IS A WORLD IN WHICH ALL ARE AT WAR WITH ALL BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO RESOLVE DIFFERENCES THROUGH DIALOGUE, DEBATE, PERSUASION. THERE IS ONLY COERCION. AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT, IN TERMS OF THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY, RIDES ON SECURING IN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN BASIC PROTECTIONS FROM COERCION THAT EVERY HUMAN BEING ENJOYS FOR VIRTUE OF HIS BY HER HUMANITY. HOST: NOW THE POPE DID APPEAL TO THE U-N TO UNDERTAKE IN A MAJOR WAY THE ROLE OF PROMULGATING THIS. HE SCOLDED THEM A LITTLE AND SAID YOU HAVE TO RISE ABOVE JUST BEING A COLD ADMINISTRATIVE CENTER AND BECOME A MORAL CENTER. DO YOU THINK THE U-N IS CAPABLE OF UNDERTAKING THAT TASK. CHAREN: NO. THIS IS WHERE I WOULD PART COMPANY FROM THE POPE AND SAY THAT IT'S FINE FOR HIM TO BE HOPEFUL ABOUT THE CAPACITY OF THE UNITED NATIONS TO DO THAT. BUT THE UNITED NATIONS IS ONLY THE SUM OF ITS PARTS AND IT MAY BE LESS THAN THE SUM OF ITS PARTS. IT HAS A PRETTY LAMENTABLE HISTORY OF CODDLING AND INDEED, EXALTING THE WORST TYRANTS AND DESPOTS IN THE WORLD. IT HAS HAD NO MORAL HISTORY REALLY. IT HAS JUST BEEN A PLACE OF CONTENDING BLOCS AND INTEREST GROUPS. HOST: ARE YOU THAT PESSIMISTIC, GEORGE WEIGEL? WEIGEL: I THINK THERE WAS A VERY SUBTLE CHALLENGE TO THE PRESENT U-N SYSTEM IN BETWEEN THE LINES OF THE POPE'S ADDRESS. THE HOLY FATHER DOES NOT LOOK ON THE U-N AS THE SECRETARY GENERAL LOOKS AT THE U-N, AS A NASCENT WORLD GOVERNMENT. I THINK HE'S SAYING: "LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS HERE AND SEE IF YOU CAN'T DO SOMETHING THAT IS AT ONCE, MORE USEFUL AND INDEED, MORE POSSIBLE, NAMELY, MAKE THIS A FORUM FOR SERIOUS DEBATE ABOUT THE MORAL KERNEL THAT IS AT THE HEART OF EVERY POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC ISSUE." HOST: I'M AFRAID THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE THIS WEEK. I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR GUESTS -- GEORGE WEIGEL FROM THE ETHICS AND PUBLIC POLICY CENTER AND NATIONALLY-SYNDICATED COLUMNIST MONA CHAREN -- FOR JOINING ME THIS WEEK TO DISCUSS THE MESSAGE OF POPE JOHN PAUL THE SECOND. THIS IS ROBERT REILLY FOR ON THE LINE. 20-Oct-95 4:15 PM EDT (2015 UTC) NNNN Source: Voice of America .